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velo john
Junior Member

Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Portland, Or
Posts: 25

Re: New lwb bike

quote:
Originally posted by Fast Freddy
So Bacchetta is introducing a new LWB model. I suppose they can see the writing on the wall and are jumping on our LWB bandwagon.
Freddy

Hi Freddy, and fellow bent heads. I haven't posted here in a while (since the RAO thread). I feel a closeness to the ER bikes due to meeting Gardner through Laurie and Connie at interbike and PIR, and racing PIR with my own ER clone, and then "Ruby", Norm's old Easy Racer. I think you missed the point with the new LWB Freddy. No one is "jumping ship". They are simply added to their line of bikes, designing in a way that shares a family resemblance. It's good to try something new, didn't you show up with a carbon high racer at interbike? The bike is a solid one, but so is the ER. Everyone knows the ER is the benchmark. You should feel honored that Bacchetta is making a bike in the same genra (LWB) as Gardner's time tested design.

quote:
Originally posted by Fast Freddy
After all of the high racer fuss, in the end there's nothing quite like the ride from a LWB bike. I have to say the bike looks like a Stratus.....a look that seems like two bikes were hacked together and welded into one.
Freddy [/B]

You are right Freddy. The LWB ride is magical. It just glides along. It would be my bike of choice for across the country touring. As far as being hacked together, Gardners original design was exactly that, although I don't like the word "hacked". My clone was made to Gardners plans, and Gardner himself admired the lugged frame-set on my bike (the donor being a nice lugged race bike), and I admired his genius in seeing that bike from a couple of others.

quote:
Originally posted by Fast Freddy
There's a lesson to be learned here, if you like originality and want the best go the the source....EASY RACERS and except no substitutes,
Freddy [/B]

Easyracers will continue to be fabulous bikes and the standard to which all other LWB bikes are judged.. They do everything well. But if you are looking for something fast to race without a fairing or sock, there are other options. The Javelin is another wonderful design, and thank you Freddy for letting me take a spin on t during last years Recumbent Retreat. I only hope you don't abandon the "naked" highracer idea. I think that ER could produce a great bike in that area as well, just as Bacchetta has produced a really nice LWB.

All the best,
John Climaldi

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03-07-2007 11:14 PM

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john riley
Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA USA
Posts: 466

not just theory

quote:
Originally posted by Bill Stevenson
....
It is important for everyone to understand something that PaPa said in the beginning and that is that it is possible to provide a given amount of rigidity using a monotube or a triangulated design. ...

Seems like this has gone from a discussion of two specific bikes, the TE and the new Bacchetta, into the theoretical realm. Points taken in that regard, but with respect to these two bikes, we don't have to speculate (ok, I am just looking at pictures, so I am speculating in that sense.)

I think I can look at the tube sizes and amount of triangulation on the rear of a TE and look at the tube sizes and lack of triangulation of the rear stays on the Bacchetta and conclude that the rear of the Bacchetta's frame will not be as stiff as the rear frame of the TE. At this point it no longer matters if a non-triangulated frame can _theoretically_ be made as stiff as a triangulated one. I seriously suspect that this one isn't, with regard to the rear stays.

As to the relative merits of either, I agree that it depends on intended use, and factors such as the size and weight of the rider.

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03-08-2007 03:16 PM

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PaPa
Member

Registered: Dec 2002
Location:
Posts: 52

quote:
Originally posted by john riley I think I can look at the tube sizes and amount of triangulation on the rear of a TE and look at the tube sizes and lack of triangulation of the rear stays on the Bacchetta and conclude that the rear of the Bacchetta's frame will not be as stiff as the rear frame of the TE.

Looks can be deceiving, John. Unless exact tube dimensions (including wall thickness) and parent properties are known, the amount of vertical compliance can only be determined by controlled testing and/or FEA, using specific, static and dynamic loading. (and even FEA has tough time, if you fail to feed it enough numbers)

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03-08-2007 06:57 PM

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macpublish
Senior Member

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Connecticut, USA
Posts: 383

multiple e-mail notifications from this thread

Is anyone else getting multiple notifications that this thread has been updated (even when there is only one new message)? I have received at least 4 for the last message left by PaPa alone. Is it just me?

Best,
Perry

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03-08-2007 07:50 PM

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Bill Stevenson
Senior Member

Registered: Aug 2006
Location: South Florida
Posts: 273

Perry,

One notice for me.

Bill

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03-08-2007 08:23 PM

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macpublish
Senior Member

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Connecticut, USA
Posts: 383

quote:
Originally posted by Bill Stevenson
Perry,

One notice for me.

Bill

Thanks, Bill, but now I feel persecuted.

Perry

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03-08-2007 08:33 PM

Robert J. Wells
Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Ga, for now
Posts: 502

Wow, this thread is starting to give me a headache, think I'm gonna go ride my TE & relax

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03-08-2007 11:19 PM

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Barb MacDonald
Member

Registered: Jan 2003
Location:
Posts: 33

Bacchetta Sales Pitch

I have been examining this discussion and I suspect some of you may be biased � towards Easy Racers!

True, the Easy Racer is the best LWB there is. It is also true that there is no, or little, room for improvement on the Easy Racer (it's just so perfect!). Therefore, anyone else who comes up with a different LWB design has to offer something obviously different that is not just a replica of an Easy Racer. Some bike buyers may want something different simply for the sake of being different.

In another shocking revelation, I also suspect some of you are biased towards LWB bikes!

For touring and commuting an Easy Racer is what I recommend. That�s what I use myself. However, for sporty riding without a fairing, a highracer can go fast and those Bacchetta guys are doing some interesting stuff. I would not be surprised if the ultramarathon racing efforts of Bacchetta riders leads to widespread use of highracers in long-distance racing. A highracer may not offer the luxury of a LWB but a highracer is still infinitely better than an upright bike for ultramarathon cycling.

I prefer the LWB format for distance racing and I predict we are going to see more Easy Racer LWB�s set up for that purpose. Lightweight components and a carbon fiber seat can make an Easy Racer (in the 23 lb range) a real contender (even without a fairing). Reducing the frontal area by raising the BB an inch or two noticeably decreases wind resistance on an unfaired Easy Racer. This can be done by using a 451 front wheel or a (straighter) fork with less trail (yes I confess I tried that � the Easy Racer is surprisingly tolerant of home tinkerers).

However, for the type of riding that 99.9% of people do, the normal Easy Racer is just perfect the way it is.

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03-11-2007 11:49 PM

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PaPa
Member

Registered: Dec 2002
Location:
Posts: 52

Re: Bacchetta Sales Pitch

quote:
Originally posted by Barb MacDonald
Reducing the frontal area by raising the BB an inch or two noticeably decreases wind resistance on an unfaired Easy Racer. This can be done by using a 451 front wheel or a (straighter) fork with less trail

A "straighter" fork will increase trail.

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03-12-2007 12:27 AM

Barb MacDonald
Member

Registered: Jan 2003
Location:
Posts: 33

Re: Re: Bacchetta Sales Pitch - me not too bright

quote:
Originally posted by PaPa
A "straighter" fork will increase trail.

Oops, that's what I meant to say: decrease rake and increase trail.

Thanks for pointing that out.

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03-12-2007 12:49 AM

ewong3
Junior Member

Registered: Aug 2006
Location:
Posts: 5

Re: Bacchetta Sales Pitch

"Reducing the frontal area by raising the BB an inch or two noticeably decreases wind resistance on an unfaired Easy Racer. This can be done by using a 451 front wheel or a (straighter) fork with less trail (yes I confess I tried that � the Easy Racer is surprisingly tolerant of home tinkerers)."

I thought that's what the Javelin has accomplished already and is considered the fastest street ER ever. But I guess if one wants to remain with the look of the classic ERs, then that modification could be considered to reduce the frontal area.

__________________
Edward Wong III
Orlando, FL
Sunbicycles EZ-1 SC
Giant Suede SS

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03-30-2007 05:17 AM